Difference between revisions of "Talk:Exploring, Construction & Building Formulas"

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m (→‎Okay: new section)
(List of formulas... mostly... confirm, reject, lose... it means the same to me)
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Formula requires work for both the GC + Soldier Costs.    [[User:Puppy101|Puppy101]] 08:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 
Formula requires work for both the GC + Soldier Costs.    [[User:Puppy101|Puppy101]] 08:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
  
−
== Building Efficency ==
 
−
The current formula makes no logical sense,
 
  
−
            [(Current Available Workers) / 2]
+
== Algebra is VERY Fun ==
−
-----------------------------------------------------------
+
Bahh...
−
((2/3) * Total Jobs + 1) * Science + Race + Stance - Dragon
 
  
−
Even if you fix that * Sign and move the modifiers out, it doesn't account for a surplus of workers, and the +1 looks more like a "can't divide by 0" fudge factor. (That also means you can't have 100%)
+
Homes:
 +
Pop += 8n
 +
Birth Rate += 4 * % - 0.04 * %^2
  
−
If, by chance, the 1/2 current available workers means that for every 2% employment drop you have a 1% Building Efficiency drop, then you need to add 50 at the end of the equation
 
  
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(.5 * %Filled Jobs + 50) + Science + Race + Stance + Dragon (Dragon already has negative stats, subtracting a negative stat makes it positive)
+
Farms:
 +
Food += 70n
  
−
== Algebra is FUN ==
+
Mills:
 +
Build Costs -= 4 * % - 0.04 * %^2
 +
Exploration Costs -= 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2
  
 +
Banks:
 +
Income += 25n
 +
%Income += 1.255 * % - 0.015 * %^2 + 0.01 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
 +
 +
Training Grounds:
 +
OME += 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
 +
 +
Armoury:
 +
Training Cost -= 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
 +
Draft Cost -= 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
 +
Wages -= 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
 +
 +
Military Barracks:
 +
Attack Time -= 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
 +
 +
Forts:
 +
DME += 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
 +
 +
 +
Guard Stations:
 +
Defense Losses -= 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
 +
 +
Hospitals:
 +
Plague += 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
 +
Military Losses -= 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2
 +
 +
Guilds:
 +
Wizards per Hour = 0.02 * n
 +
 +
Towers:
 +
Runes per Hour = 12n
 +
 +
Thieves Dens:
 +
Thief Losses -= 4 * % - 0.04 * %^2
 +
Thief Effectiveness += 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2
 +
 +
Watch Towers:
 +
Thief Catch += 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
 +
Thief Damage -= 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2
 +
 +
Libraries:
 +
Science Effects += 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
 +
 +
Schools:
 +
Science Costs -= 1.51 * % + 0.02 * %^2 - 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
 +
Science Protect += 3.495 * % - 0.035 * %^2 + 0.01 * int(% / 2) (( +/- .1))
 +
 +
Stables:
 +
Horses per Hour = n
 +
Horses = 60n
 +
 +
Dungeons:
 +
Prisoners = 20n
 +
 +
 +
Using Utopia Angel as the source, these should perfectly match the value (Well, I formulated it up to 10%, but no "verification" from utopia yet. Uses % * 100 instead of standard notation (IE, 5% as 5 instead of .05)
 +
 +
Note:
 
Base Effect * BE * % of building * (1 - % of building)
 
Base Effect * BE * % of building * (1 - % of building)
 +
Assuming % is in standard notation (as in n% = n / 100) this does not match the given values. (assuming base effect is "percent min")
  
−
I'm assuming this translates as
 
−
 
−
BE * Effect
 
  
−
Now N(1-N) is... wrong. N(1-N) says that after 50% of a building type you start losing the effects that building has... let alone it doesn't seem to follow any particular building.  Homes, for instance, uses a similar formula but is much different than the caluculated version
+
Notes on Formulas:
 +
"0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)"
  
−
Homes (Birth Rate): 4 * % - .04 * %^2
+
is a correction put in to get the EXACT values Angel was spitting out. Some buildings had a, oscillation, in their (for lack of better terminology) second derivative. This is simply there to keep that oscillation in.
−
CAP: MAX(75, Birth Rate)
 
  
 +
Science Protect is NOT exact. I believe Angel was at fault here, but although the second derivatives were close together, their oscillations were at random. So expect about .1 error.
  
  
 +
I also expect these "oscillations" to be manifestations from Angel.
  
−
So... Lets do this Right (With PAINFUL Spreadsheets!)
+
Probably didn't need to bother with the flat rates but w/e. Do with them what you want... and yes, I have a spreadsheet :p --[[User:Stupid|Stupid]] 03:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
  
−
== Okay ==
+
== On Building Efficiency ==
  
−
I'm running through these to try and verify / correct.
+
So, yeah, I got a little eccentric there and made a random change [Although, the way the formula was, was ENTIRELY incorrect... the (1 + %) x .5 seems to work... but sometimes seems slightly off (delayed change?)] mostly because of the frustration of trying to decipher what the "real" formula was (and promptly ignoring it when I did). So sorry for that.
−
BE looks to be
 
  
−
default - CEIL([(1 - %Filled Jobs) / 4])
+
Trying to get to 50% BE so I can gather data... but it's rather annoying trying to get that low (well, also without getting killed off / thief'd [who night strikes an INACTIVE?])... going to see about just losing more land to kill off peasants. So stable population, set number of jobs... no science. No race bonuses... should be easy enough to confirm / disprove the current and get enough information to get that elusive "rate of change" (It's been rather linear on the way down which means that "the rate of change %filled jobs is ~equivalent to the rate of change of CALCULATED %BE after ~3 ticks). We'll either see, or not. W/E
  
−
It also appears that "Workers Needed for Max. Efficiency" returns (FLOOR(Total Jobs * .67)). This value APPEARS to be used over the actual value 2 * (Total Jobs) / 3 thus meaning a peasant can really only perform 1.4925 jobs (it does add up).
+
--[[User:Stupid|Stupid]] 03:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 03:57, 4 December 2009


Exploration Costs

Formula requires work for both the GC + Soldier Costs. Puppy101 08:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


Algebra is VERY Fun

Bahh...

Homes: 

Pop += 8n
Birth Rate += 4 * % - 0.04 * %^2


Farms: 

Food += 70n

Mills: 

Build Costs -= 4 * % - 0.04 * %^2
Exploration Costs -= 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2

Banks: 

Income += 25n
%Income += 1.255 * % - 0.015 * %^2 + 0.01 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)

Training Grounds: 

OME += 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)

Armoury: 

Training Cost -= 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
Draft Cost -= 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
Wages -= 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2

Military Barracks: 

Attack Time -= 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)

Forts: 

DME += 1.51 * % - 0.02 * %^2 + 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)


Guard Stations: 

Defense Losses -= 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2

Hospitals: 

Plague += 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
Military Losses -= 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2

Guilds: 

Wizards per Hour = 0.02 * n

Towers: 

Runes per Hour = 12n

Thieves Dens: 

Thief Losses -= 4 * % - 0.04 * %^2
Thief Effectiveness += 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2

Watch Towers: 

Thief Catch += 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2
Thief Damage -= 3 * % - 0.03 * %^2

Libraries: 

Science Effects += 2 * % - 0.02 * %^2

Schools: 

Science Costs -= 1.51 * % + 0.02 * %^2 - 0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)
Science Protect += 3.495 * % - 0.035 * %^2 + 0.01 * int(% / 2) (( +/- .1))

Stables: 

Horses per Hour = n
Horses = 60n

Dungeons: 

Prisoners = 20n


Using Utopia Angel as the source, these should perfectly match the value (Well, I formulated it up to 10%, but no "verification" from utopia yet. Uses % * 100 instead of standard notation (IE, 5% as 5 instead of .05)

Note: Base Effect * BE * % of building * (1 - % of building) Assuming % is in standard notation (as in n% = n / 100) this does not match the given values. (assuming base effect is "percent min")


Notes on Formulas: "0.02 * int(% / 2) * int((% - 1) / 2)"

is a correction put in to get the EXACT values Angel was spitting out. Some buildings had a, oscillation, in their (for lack of better terminology) second derivative. This is simply there to keep that oscillation in.

Science Protect is NOT exact. I believe Angel was at fault here, but although the second derivatives were close together, their oscillations were at random. So expect about .1 error.


I also expect these "oscillations" to be manifestations from Angel.

Probably didn't need to bother with the flat rates but w/e. Do with them what you want... and yes, I have a spreadsheet :p --Stupid 03:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

On Building Efficiency

So, yeah, I got a little eccentric there and made a random change [Although, the way the formula was, was ENTIRELY incorrect... the (1 + %) x .5 seems to work... but sometimes seems slightly off (delayed change?)] mostly because of the frustration of trying to decipher what the "real" formula was (and promptly ignoring it when I did). So sorry for that.

Trying to get to 50% BE so I can gather data... but it's rather annoying trying to get that low (well, also without getting killed off / thief'd [who night strikes an INACTIVE?])... going to see about just losing more land to kill off peasants. So stable population, set number of jobs... no science. No race bonuses... should be easy enough to confirm / disprove the current and get enough information to get that elusive "rate of change" (It's been rather linear on the way down which means that "the rate of change %filled jobs is ~equivalent to the rate of change of CALCULATED %BE after ~3 ticks). We'll either see, or not. W/E

--Stupid 03:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

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